Lorde, at this point, is a veteran performer. For a long time before she reached that level, though, she didn’t always thrive on stage as she dealt with some anxiety. On The Late Show With Stephen Colbert yesterday (June 24), though, she explained to the host how she got over it.

Lorde told Colbert that she had the “truly the most horrific stage fright” since she was doing community theater performances at about five years old. Colbert asked how she got over it and she wondered out loud if she’s allowed to talk about it. She then said:

“Well, it’s MDMA therapy. […] Truly, like, changed the game on my stage fright. […] From what I have heard, some of these things live very deep in the body, and you hold on to it. You hold on to a response like stage fright for reasons that no amount of talk therapy or brain use could get at. But when you bypass that and get to the body, something shifts. And that totally happened for me. I tried everything for my stage fright. I did this therapy and then literally, I woke up the next day and was like, ‘Oh, it’s over. I know it’s over.’”

Watch the full interview above.