Joey Bada$$ Interview – Hottest Pen, Sitting Among the Greats

October 3, 2025 2

Joey Bada$$
Mic killer. No filler.
Interview: Georgette Cline
Editor’s Note: This story appears in the Fall 2025 issue of XXL Magazine, on newsstands now and available for sale on the XXL website.

Rappers often face a paradoxical situation when they take a break between albums. During this time, their skills may be questioned, especially if they’ve chosen to work behind the scenes as an element of surprise. While not every rap fan subscribes to this idea, it’s a challenge that Joey Bada$$ has encountered throughout his career. Still, he’s found ways to change that perception.

On Jan. 1 of this year, he dropped the Conductor Williams-produced track “The Ruler’s Back,” signaling the East Flatbush, Brooklyn native’s return to rap while asserting his dominance and competitive spirit. More importantly, it was a reminder: don’t ever count him out. A lyrical nod Joey made to Jay-Z on the song ignited a verbal showdown with West Coast rapper Ray Vaughn and MCs like Daylyt jumping into the fray. In the words of Drake, it was a “20-v-1.” Joey turned into a vocabulary villain with a vengeance and came out victorious.

Jo-Vaughn Scott isn’t new to this. He’s coming on 15 years strong in the game after unleashing his debut mixtape, 1999, in 2012. The moment Joey went to war on the mic was a reintroduction of sorts and served as the perfect lay-up for his fourth studio album, Lonely at the Top, released this past August. Three years had passed since his last project, 2000, and in hip-hop, that might as well be a lifetime depending on who you ask. The 30-year-old MC was never stagnant, though.

In the forefront, he dropped some loosies and collaborated on features during that time. Most notably, he turned his attention toward acting as the character Unique in the acclaimed Starz series Power Book III: Raising Kanan. In the privacy of the studio, Joey was carefully crafting bars and verses for two albums he was working on simultaneously: Lonely at the Top and a concept album he’s aiming to release next year.

Joey’s excitement for both is palpable as he sits on a couch inside Sunday Afternoon’s studio in New York City on an early September afternoon. Dressed in a plaid trapper hat, brown leather vest, jeans decorated with sparkling constellations, Timbs, gold grills and his signature JB logo chain, the father of two shares his thoughts on having the hottest pen in the game, catching people off guard with his bars, lyrical ability, being among the greats and having no fear.

XXL: You’ve been in the game for nearly 15 years now. What has helped you stay motivated and hungry to keep going?

Joey Bada$$: I think experimentation. What haven’t I done yet? What haven’t I challenged myself to do yet, and, going for those things, you know what I’m saying? ’Cause that feels new and exciting for me. It has been a long time, for sure. But I think just the element of surprise.

One of my favorite reactions that I get from people listening to my music is, “Yo, this is you?” “Yo, I didn’t know you had this in you.” I love that. And I think that feeling, along with having a crazy display of lyrical ability, is also what makes it satisfying to see people break down what I said, what I meant, what I buried in there.

What are you most proud of that you’ve accomplished in hip-hop?

I think what I’m most proud about is to be part of the ecosystem. To have influence and presence. It’s like, sh*t, I said the line [“Too much West Coast d**k lickin’/I’m hearin’ ni**as throwin’ rocks, really ain’t sh*t stickin’” on “The Ruler’s Back”] at the beginning of the year, and so many people were reacting to it. I’m like, Oh sh*t, like I really gotta watch what I say ’cause people are muthaf**kin’ listening. That showed me my influence, my impact, and I’m proud of that. To have that type of gravitas with my pen that can move energy.

To go off that, on “The Ruler’s Back,” you came in at the beginning of the year swinging. Going into the making of that song, were you out to prove a point? Like, “Don’t count me out”?

Oh yeah. You know, people hyper-focused on the West Coast line, which was a quote from Jay-Z, but the real spirit of that song is in the lines where I say, “Yo, this is for every time they left me out the conversation.” I got murals in my city, you know what I mean? F**k a nomination, I’m certified. I have proven myself. I put the work in. That was the real spirit that that joint was in, but I think people in the internet really just leaned into the controversial aspect of it and built off of that narrative.

How do you combat that or change that when being left out of the conversations you think you should be in? Is it by being consistent and dropping the album?

Yeah, just getting to the music and setting your sights on the next product and, you know, what you want to communicate. That’s like what “The Ruler’s Back” was for me, ’cause like I said, I’ve been working on a project for a long time, which is gonna be my next album.

I was working on that long before I even started the idea of Lonely at the Top. So, I think I got to the point where it’s just like, man, I got some sh*t to say. I got some sh*t that I just kinda wanna get off my chest, like lyrically or just artistically, before I go here in this direction, you know?

On Lonely at the Top, there are many ways that you do that. One of them, on the song “Speedin’ Through the Rain,” you take the driving theme from the top to the bottom. That’s a showcase of your pen and lyrical skills. When you’re doing something like that, or even just to sharpen your pen, like your mental exercises, lyrical exercises, how do you do that? What kind of space do you get in?

The best is when it happens naturally. When I gotta kinda like force myself to go there, is not that fun, you know what I mean? Because it’s like I start straining my brain, trying hard. “Speedin’ Through the Rain,” was just one of those moments where I always say that song wrote itself. I heard that beat, and then instantly what I heard was “Pedal to the metal on the road to the riches.”

And then just from there, I just thought up the driving scheme, and I didn’t even think to myself, that like, Yo, let me keep it going for the whole song. It just flowed that way. I got to the end of the first verse, and I’m like, Damn, can I do it again for a second verse? And then I did. And it was just like, Yeah, this is tight. This is what makes this fun. This is what I love about writing music and being a lyricist.

What makes you feel that you have the hottest pen?

Sh*t like that, you know, “Speedin’ Through the Rain,” seeing reactions of people when they catch the bars. Right now, we in a culture where there’s a lot of reactors, so when I see them reacting to the music and they catch a bar, and it’s like them having that reaction. They get up out the seat, they shaking they head, they start hitting sh*t.

’Cause it feels that way to me when I’m writing ’em. But one real thing, though, is there’s always gonna be a crowd for lyricism. And I’m glad 2025 happened because I feel like it really put an emphasis back on the lyrics.

There was a point in my career where I deliberately was like, OK, let me focus on songs because I’m putting a lot into these lyrics, and people are not getting it. It’s like going over they head, and it’s like, you don’t get that artistic satisfaction when you feel like your art is not being appreciated properly, you know what I’m saying? So, I’m glad that we’re back at a point where it’s like, oh, so, y’all listening now. Y’all actually are breaking down double entendres now. OK cool. Watch me cook.

You say, “Came to claim my position” on your song “Still.” In hip-hop, where do you feel like your position is?

My position is amongst the greats, you know what I mean? My position is part of the ecosystem of what our culture is today and influencing that and having a profound voice. I feel like we get caught up on like, “the king,” this, that and the third or The Big 3, but I think that everybody is contributing in they own kind of way. Everybody’s special in they own regard, ’cause there’s only one of each person. So, I would say that, playing my position as one of them. One of the ones.

Between you and Ray Vaughn, and some others, you were battle-tested this year, and you showed and proved. Looking back on that experience, what was an accomplished moment for you?

Well, shout-out to Daylyt. One of the things that made me be like, OK, I’m gonna engage, is, one, I love battle rap, and I think Daylyt is arguably one of the best battle rappers there are. I was just like, bro, you know, I’ve never battle rapped in my life, but if my pen could go with one of the greats in that sport, then I think that says a lot about me as an MC, as a rapper. So that was one of the main deciding factors of why I even engaged.

And then two, I felt that, at first, I didn’t see the opportunity, ’cause I’m like, I’m a more accomplished artist than my adversaries were. But then I started realizing that there’s a lot of people who actually not hip to what my pen could do. So, I think that just engaging. I’m proud that I did because I really was prepared to just kinda take the high road the whole time and not really engage, because I’m like, what do I get from it? But in the end, I did see a win and came out with it.

What did you enjoy about that competitive standpoint?

Just being on my toes, and like having to be fast on my toes. I don’t think I’ve ever had to do that. That’s like a lyrical exercise in itself. No, it really was. ’Cause to perform at such a high level so quickly, I don’t think I’ve ever been challenged like that.

A lot of the times, we work on songs for years, and then by the time we put it out, they’re like years old, or we had a lot of time to refine lyrics to perfect it, you know? This was definitely an instance of give it the best you got and let’s go. So, that was cool. I don’t think I really knew how well I performed under pressure.

You showcase different sides of yourself on the album by rapping and singing. “3 Feet Away” is a highlight of that. Why do you want to put that part of your artistry on display at this point in your career?

I think if it doesn’t grow, it dies. I’m a firm believer in that. So, I’m always looking to grow and to expand. I like to look at music in a food type of analogy, right? Where it’s like people go to the restaurants that they like. You go to an Italian restaurant for Italian food. And I do have that understanding, but at the same time, I think that I’m always trying to find ways to introduce my consumer base to new dishes.

Don’t worry, I’m always having that fettuccini for y’all. That’s always gonna be there, but try this crudo. It’s a new flavor. Like “3 Feet Away,” “What the f**k? This ni**a’s singing.” I’ve never rapped like that on a song. The vocal inflections. It’s one of my favorite songs, for real, and I’m glad that I put it out.

That was one of the later additions to the project, too. I knew I loved that song, but I was just like, are they ready for it? And I’m like, f**k it. This is the moment in my career where there’s no fear. Do it.

It takes a lot of time for certain artists to get to that point. Why are you in that place now where you have no fear?

’Cause I think that I’ve done it, and you know what? I think the year that I’ve had gave me more confidence, too. It’s like, don’t y’all ever try to play with me when it comes to the bars, you know what I’m saying? I displayed I can do that whenever I want to, and you should know that by now. Don’t ever try to play me. Let me show you something new now.