It’s not much of a reach to say that the relationship between art and commerce has always been… tense. But for KidSuper’s Colm Dillane, the tension isn’t as cut-and-dry as it has often been characterized. While some view artists and corporate interests as natural antagonists, the multifaceted designer sees them as much more symbiotic.

While on a Zoom call with Dillane to chat about his latest brand collaboration, a custom couture-inspired delivery hot bag for Papa John’s rolling out alongside the chain’s new croissant pizza, he detailed his philosophy regarding big-brand involvement in his artistic endeavors.

“I think the support that we get from brands like Papa John’s is super important to maintaining the ability to be creative,” he says. “I think that’s a huge thing. People think that it’s the complete opposite, but actually these collaborations as helping me maintain my freedom and creativity.”

That creativity extends to such as his record label, KidSuper Records, which launched in October with its debut single, “Big In Da Game” featuring British grime legend Giggs and Atlanta trap mainstay Quavo. The label was a natural extension of Colm’s collaborations with artists like Ed Sheeran, Kehlani, Laila!, Russ, and more, highlighting the ties between fashion, graphic design, and music.

“Since day one, music has always been an integral part of KidSuper,” he said at the time. “From housing artists, to making album art, merch collaborations, and hosting pop-ups.” While he said that “KidSuper Records was always a pipe dream,” it’s the sort of dream that could only come true with the freedoms afforded by his mainstream brand collaborations.

So, while Papa John’s benefits from KidSuper’s cool co-sign, Colm’s studio is flourishing thanks in part to the brand’s support, putting him in position to bring more art to life — whether that’s in the world of design, fashion, or music.

How did you end up collaborating with Papa John’s?

Couple reasons. One, we’re doing this fashion show in Paris and every season we go out there as Americans to Paris and work our asses off to try to pull off these crazy shows. When Papa John’s was doing this croissant pizza, they were looking to collaborate with people that think outside the box. Then the whole thing tied in with going to Paris, croissant. Then the whole story tied in with us staying up late nights working on these things, eating pizza. It was kind of like, “Hey, this could work and feel organic and make sense.”

From there, we kept going and talking about it. Then it was like, “Well, during fashion shows, I’ve been known to make interesting accessories and bags and stuff like that.” A pizza bag in the context of a Paris Fashion Week show might actually work for KidSuper. That’s how all the ideas started. The more we got talking about it, the more we were like, “Oh, this is cool, this is cool. This weirdly works,” and here we are.

Sounds like a dream job: Eating pizza in the middle of the night and drawing pictures.

It is a dream job. It’s also very fun because a lot of the people that I work with have been with me since I was five or 10 or 15. A lot of those moments were around pizza. It’s pretty funny. I think you should see behind the scenes of what these Paris Fashion Week happenings are because we’ll be like full kids trying to figure out how to make a Scrabble tile or make the silliest item, and then the next day, it’s like we’re on Vogue competing against Dior and Louis Vuitton. I think, and I’m completely unbiased here, but we do the best shows during Paris Fashion Week.

Speaking of the bag, they actually sent me the press images of it. It looks very, very, very cool. I would love to know the inspirations, the thinking behind some of these design details, like the handle. I was like, “Whoa, that’s nifty.” It’s one of those… I can’t remember the name of it, but it’s like those ropes they tie the elaborate curtains at the opera with. That’s what it reminds me of.

Well, it’s funny that you take that as great art speaks to people in different ways. But we were thinking that the rope kind of represents or alludes to the way you tie croissants. That’s why we did the rope. But I like your take, which made it feel more elegant and fancy.

In terms of the jacquard pattern on it, we were trying to make something that felt KidSuper but also had the colors of Papa John’s, but also wasn’t so screaming in your face that this is a pizza bag. It was also like, “Oh, this is a really nice pattern and could live on a runway as well.” That was kind of the inspiration. When we do these types of collaborations, we present 30 ideas, usually. I think it’s interesting for people to understand because I think a lot of times, people think, “Whatever, it’s not a full collaboration,” or whatever it is. But we presented a bunch of ideas, and we all came together to think that was told the story the best.

I was thinking about my memories of Papa John’s pizza. My thing that I remember is that my high school had Papa John’s pizza in the morning and at lunchtime, you went to the café, and you paid a dollar, and they gave you a slice. Do you have any memories of Papa John’s pizza specifically?

I unfortunately did not have that high school experience. I don’t even think we touched our high school cafeteria food. It was that crazy. I went to high school in Brooklyn. But I mean, the thing that’s funny, and I don’t know if they want me to say this because, but I love the little peppers. I remember the peppers on the side of Papa John’s. That always felt like a touch above the rest of the class that Papa John’s is in. I was like, “Oh man, this is fancy or artisanal or whatever.”

But I think for me growing up, Papa John’s was always seen a little bit as more premium than the rest of its colleagues in the space. That’s how I always saw it, to be honest. Maybe it was just fully because of that pepper. But I unfortunately didn’t have it in high school, but that’s also a cool story. Where’d you go to high school?

I went to high school in Long Beach Poly. I guess if you go to a school that they shoot movies at, they let you have stuff like that. Nick Cannon is not going to shoot Love Don’t Cost A Thing and not get his Papa John’s.

That’s awesome. My favorite Nick Cannon movie is Drumline.

It’s the best Nick Cannon movie, easily.

It’s the best drumming movie of all time.

Well, there’s Whiplash.

I get in this argument aggressively, and I’m like, “Drumline is 10 times better than Whiplash.”

Happier ending. Whiplash is a drag. What is the most interesting thing you learned through this process?

I think one thing is it’s cool to think all KidSuper and Papa John’s, at one time, were just an idea or just a small company. I think that’s where we both tie in together. It’s also cool to think there’s still a little bit of freedom and play allowed even in these big companies. I try to keep that as much as I can within KidSuper.

Thank you for that. I really appreciate you reminding me of finding the space in the rules to play around because that was something that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately.

When I’m working with brands, they’re championing that more than they’re trying to prevent it. They’re actually like, “How can we think bigger?” That’s why they’re coming to me. Shout out to Papa John’s and other brands. But it’s cool to be in a position now where you can do that. I think some people get these negative connotations about brands where it’s like, “There’s this guy behind the desk who’s like no good ideas and no creative thinking.” But they’re championing new ideas, and they’re trying to do new ideas, so it is quite fun.

This is hard to say, but this is more difficult than people think. I think the support that we get from brands like Papa John’s is super important to maintaining the ability to be creative. I think that’s a huge thing. I think there’s always… people think that it’s the complete opposite, actually, but actually, these collaborations help me maintain my freedom and creativity.