So is there ever a part where you get comfortable with it? No. You never get comfortable with it, but I have glimpsed moments myself where I can see the Matrix, and I can see exactly what needs to be done in this moment. It doesn’t happen all the time, but I have glimpses of that. And because I know what that looks like, I try to get there again, but it is definitely not something that happens every moment you’re writing comedy.

Does being in that place of still searching for that that inform your personality? Would you miss that if that was gone?

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think I’m not the most naturally talented person. I’m definitely not the best natural orator. My skillset, I think, is quite limited. I can’t do impressions. I can’t do special effects. I’m actually extremely untalented in almost every way. So I feel like, if I don’t work at it, how can I hang with these professionals? So yeah, I don’t know if it informs my personality. I think my personality informs that.

With all the opportunities that I’m sure you have in front of you from an acting standpoint, from the Daily Show, to stand-up comedy? Is it difficult to stay present and not get too ahead of yourself in terms of trying to be strategic and planning?

No, no, no. Actually, it is easiest to stay present, I think. It’s harder to think ahead. I think it’s easier to not think ahead too much and stay in the moment. I think maybe I’ve made a conscious effort to be more Buddhist the last two years, and so staying in the present is something I actually enjoy doing because I feel like that’s when I’m me. I feel like, if I’m thinking about the future or I’m looking at my social media, I don’t feel like that’s me anymore. I feel like I’m outside myself. I guess part of what I’m saying is I might have actually unintentionally started a practice of it that I actually enjoy. So it doesn’t feel like work, just staying in the present.

And then, the second thing is, I don’t know, live-performing is very immediate. So you have to be present, right? You’re dealing with people right in front of you in that moment, so you have to be present.

I can’t think of getting ahead because I still feel like I’m trying to prove myself now. I don’t feel like I’m big enough to be like, “All right, I got that handled. Let me be strategic over here with how am I going to use my next six months to change the culture of the world.” I’m just still trying to write the next joke to make these assholes laugh. So I guess that helps me stay in the present knowing that I’m not that big a deal. I’m still just another comic in New York City trying to tell these dick jokes or whatever. Yeah, and the Daily Show also makes you stay very present because the Daily Show is probably the most Buddhist thing in America.

If you have a bad episode you have to flush it and move on to the next day.

Yeah, you have to move on. If you had a bad show, damn, guess what? You got to do one tomorrow. If you have a good show, guess what? You got to move on tomorrow. We have a new show. So it is very Buddhist at the Daily Show.

I know listening to your act, you put forth gratitude and you talk about how much you enjoy this country. Is it hard to bat back cynicism when you have to focus on the sort of political mutations of this country. Jon went through a period, left for a time. It definitely wore on him. Trevor left. That time comes for everyone.

Yes.

Are you feeling closer to the end than the beginning? Is it harder to keep cynicism at bay?

No, it’s not hard for me because I genuinely feel like I’m living the dream in America doing stand-up comedy in New York City and working on the Daily Show. So for me, I’m like, this is unbelievable.

Then the second thing is, I think I’ve figured out how to do political satire in America in terms of a mindset, and I think the mindset is that you can’t be too outrage-y. For me, that’s not how you do satire in 2025. I don’t know if it was ever a way to do satire, but it was more fashionable in 2015, 2016, that kind of outrage evisceration, this guy destroyed this dude or whatever. But I don’t think that’s the way to do satire now. I think the satire now is supposed to be more back of the room, making fun of institutions.

I’m not a good person. I’m not the leader. I’m just a fucking comic in the back of the room making fun of these assholes, whoever they are, right? No allegiance, just going for it. And I think that’s the mindset to do satire. If you have that mindset, if you don’t see yourself as a leader, which I don’t, then you don’t feel the pressure of that. And therefore it helps alleviate some of the cynicism when people don’t listen to you because I’m like, they should never have listened to me anyway. I’m just in the back making fun of these assholes. So I think that’s the mindset.

And then honestly, part of it is sometimes I feel like an emergency room doctor. I’ve been covering this shit since 2015, so you get a little desensitized, to be honest. All the stuff that comes through, it’s like, okay, well here’s another car crash, and let me try to figure this out, untangle this. And oh, okay, tomorrow’s another one. So that’s part of it too.

We got so many shows that were from the Daily Show tree and people started looking at these shows as not just vehicles for comedy, but as expressions of these comedians’ own personal political views. I’m sure I’ve committed this sin myself. And I think sometimes people look at the outrage meter and say, “Well, if you’re not screaming, if you’re not going at the guy that I think you don’t like, then you obviously don’t care.” And that’s not necessarily true. There’s a separation, right?

I think you’re spot on, and I think people took what was great about Jon Stewart, he would be earnest and angry on very serious situations. I’m talking about the 9/11 situation.

The housing crisis.

Right. Those are the clips that went viral. And so because of that, people assume that that’s the answer to not just political satire, but that’s how you build a following, and that’s how you get clicks.

And fix the country.

Right? That’s how you fix the country.

No pressure.

But I think what they missed was he used that very sparingly. It wasn’t every single time, and it has to be authentic, and it loses its power every time you do it. And also, that’s not, in my opinion, what comedy satire should be. That’s something else. That’s a point of view. That’s, as you said, a personal outrage point of view.

But I think if you’re a comic, when you do comedy, I think the best comedy has always been counter-cultural, right? Not all the time because comedy is very broad, but stand-up comedy itself is a very counter-cultural art form. All the way back to Lenny Bruce and Richard Pryor and George Carlin. These guys were hated by mainstream society. They went after Lenny Bruce for saying shit. They arrested him.

So my point is that you should be cutting against the grain. If the grain happens to be left-wing, then yeah. If the grain happens to be right-wing, then yeah. You cut against it. There should be a level of making fun of everybody from the back of the room versus being an edgelord, just going after people for the sake of it, or being tribal. I think to me, those two things are what’s out there right now, and I think the antidote to that is pulling back a bit and making fun of institutions and being like, “Hey, I’m an asshole, but these guys are assholes. And I’m not a leader. I’m just making some jokes here. This is pretty funny.” And then, you get people thinking.

‘Love To Hate It’ is streaming now on Netflix and ‘The Daily Show’ returns with new episodes in the new year on Comedy Central