These days, the conversation around lyricism in hip-hop can be polarizing. Some people argue the new generation of rappers aren’t lyrical enough while others feel there are many respected lyricists who don’t always get the recognition they deserve. The latest edition of XXL Cypher Lab, presented by the must-see boxing event: Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson, live on Netflix on November 15, focuses on a few of hip-hop’s elite MCs keeping the spirit of rap alive. Sauce Walka, Ab-Soul and Ferg take a seat after delivering their cypher verses to connect for a much-needed conversation about lyricism, competition and collaboration.

Inside The 1896 studios in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, where the XXL Cypher Lab was filmed in early October, the three artists speak from their respective experiences as they thrive in the middle of older and newer generations of hip-hop.

Ferg takes note of the current climate in rap, in which a vibe oftentimes supersedes the lyrical content in music. “I don’t think people really pay too much attention to their lyrics as much as some people do,” the Harlem rapper says. “More people are driven by the feeling and the emotion of the beat and the vibes and the melodies rather than the lyrics. So, sometimes lyrics can feel like it can be a lost art.” Good thing the Hood Pope, Soulo and the Loudini Genie continue to push it forward.

According to Sauce, whose been rapping since he was 3 years old, a true lyricist has many qualities to fulfill in order to be deemed excellent. “I think people don’t respect the layers of hip-hop and lyricism,” the Houston native expresses. “You have the wordplay, then you have cadence, you have delivery, you have voice tone, you have subject matter, substance. It’s so many lists to check off to be elite.” He certainly hits those marks.

Ab-Soul believes who or what is considered lyrical is open to interpretation. “The beauty in being a creative, or a artist in general—not even just hip-hop, but just an artist in any respect—it’s all subjective,” the Carson, Calif. MC maintains. “Somebody gonna argue you down of why your favorite artist is the weakest, and that’s why this whole thing is beautiful. It’s so subjective. It’s all perspective. It’s community, it’s a cypher, it opens a dialogue, it opens a conversation, it keeps the conversation going. So, as an artist, too, it’s really in the hands of the people.” Those hands have been clapping consistently for Soulo’s lyrical efforts through the years.

Get involved in the conversation between Sauce Walka, Ab-Soul and Ferg in the XXL Cypher Lab interview, presented by the must-see boxing event: Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson, live on Netflix, Friday, November 15 at 8 p.m. ET/5 p.m. PT.

Watch Sauce Walka, Ab-Soul and Ferg Connect for a Conversation About Lyricism in Hip-Hop

See Photos From XXL Cypher Lab